moggotson (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

"You even used the word "therefore," a function of logic."Logic is a perspective of construct. I never played well in boxes. I prefer the open spaces.

moggotson (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Logic is only as sound, as you believe the premise on which it is based, to be.There is no logic without belief.

roachapproach599 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

ok im done, i guess everyone who doesnt believe jesus saves them is automatically going to hell and being a good person doesnt matter. so i guess ill be going to hell when i die, yay. well i guess its a good thing hell is a load of crap now isnt it. have fun living your blinded life.

agapemike (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

"[we] wish to accept responsibility for our actions."I don't advocate that one MUST believe in Jesus...What keeps a poor man from accepting a hand-out? Pride.I do believe that once presented with the Gospel, it is pride that keeps many from accepting the gift of grace, feeling as if they want to be on their own, taking responsibility for their actions.This is stated with the premise that sin removes us from God (consequence) and payment is needed for that distance to be erased.

agapemike (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I find it humorous that you even participe in debate, which requires the application of logic. You provided an analogy to prove your point, another application of logic. You even used the word "therefore," a function of logic.I believe you need to explain yourself further before you dismiss logic, the very thing that allows you to make an argument. IF you don't THEN nobody will give your thoughts any relevance (sorry, I couldn't resist).

agapemike (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Furthermore, I don't believe you answered my question. You made a statement and attributed it to logic. You later made the statement that logic is worthless. In essence, you negated your authority to make the first statement.Your analogy to how whites viewed blacks is only an example of how mistakes can be made in assumptions, not a proof of the falibility of logic. Logic itself (if A=B and B=C then A=C) is sound. The processes of logic are complicated, thus we often find false outcomes.

agapemike (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

Tbt,Since you have put forth the opinion that nothing of value comes from logic, nullifying the scientific method, than will you do us all the courtesy of stating "I believe" when you make assertions like "We are no more [than natural processes]?"I don't believe making such a statement of fact is any more fair than any other person making statements of fact about thier beliefs.

nessaluver350 (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

God and Jesus are one...fyi

Twicebakedtaters (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

I appreciate your depth of feeling concerning the acts of Christ. However there are billions of humans that understand things from a different perspective. Brahma, Alah, The great spirit, Yahweh, Teachings of the Tao. They all head in the same direction. Understand some of them could see you the same way you wish to look at them. Open your mind. Do unto others.The one teaching of Christ that says it all.

Twicebakedtaters (November 30, 1999 at 12:00 am)

"And for those that DO believe in God, why shouldn't they also believe in Jesus?"The act if Christ is profound and humbling.There are those of us who simply wish to accept responsibility for our actions.