sk8nruff (August 15, 2008 at 12:53 am)

not the problem, even if we can point the finger at them. Historical wind instruments have very few technical limitations and I can assure you tuning is not one of them. and just like string players we can play any note with just intonation according to the key we're in. Natural brass instruments, with their built-in tunings, can bend notes too, to a far lesser extent, but they still sound a lot more in tune and better than modern brass.

sk8nruff (August 15, 2008 at 12:50 am)

Unless, of course, you use a cembalo universalis which has strings and keys for EVERY note with it's octaves divided into 24 parts;) Wind players aren't lazy or, oddly enough, incompetent. We like playing in meantone temperments because it's not only easier it sounds better. Unfortunately if we (period musicians) want to get paid we need to cater to the modern ears of our audiences and end up using valotti-like tunings which are closer to the equal side of things. Keyboards and keyboardists...

TheCrazyCello (August 14, 2008 at 9:45 pm)

to be more complicated with winds, I don't know too much of the technicalities being a string player, but I'm assured that it is possible to use just intonation but that most players are too lazy or incompetent to do so. The result seems to be a sort of quasi-equal temperament (even with a lot of professional orchestras, mainly the largers ones) and when there is deviation from this it always seems to be that awful "leading notes should lead" philosophy which just destroys harmony.

TheCrazyCello (August 14, 2008 at 9:42 pm)

I think this is why ensemble music is so much more expressive than keyboard music, as that freedom of intonation is retained, I like to think it was one of the reasons Weber abandoned keyboard continuo with his orchestra too, as he seemed to have a very sensitive ear for harmonic as well as timbral colouration. The problem is that strings have the freedom to use just intonation in whichever key they are in, and modulations aren't problematic as long as everyone is listening. However things seem

sk8nruff (August 14, 2008 at 6:38 pm)

he was a clever man, but sadly, yes modern musicians who dont' know their way around temperments, pitch, and tuning don't know their way around their own instruments...which is why most people don't hire them and which is why i don't play with them LoLz! They were defintiely more aware of harmony and tuning pre-equal tempered composition. That was the whole point; every key, interval, harmonic progression/figure meant something and have it's own unique color.

TheCrazyCello (August 14, 2008 at 6:30 pm)

sufficently competent in playing tunefully and with a sweet tone which blends with the bass parts", which in my limited experience of amateur baroque bassoon players is a difficult combination to find!

TheCrazyCello (August 14, 2008 at 6:28 pm)

Ugh don't get me started on wind players and tempered tuning! I'm not suprised that 18th century instruments are easier to pitch than modern equivalents, coming from a time where people seemed to be more acutely aware of tuning, as the emotional and expressional subtleties of music were conveyed through harmony. I was commenting more on the players than the instruments, going by comments made by Avison among others regarding the use of ripieno bassoons in concerti "only if the players are

sk8nruff (August 14, 2008 at 5:15 pm)

Not true, in fact historical bassoons, and hautboys, are among the easiest instruments to play in tune. In fact all historical wind instruments are more in tune than modern instruments. Take it from a pro, I like being able to choose between A# and Bb. There's no excuse for bad players, though:P

TheCrazyCello (August 14, 2008 at 10:15 am)

"Chorist-Fagotte"? Well that's a joke considering how notoriously unreliable bassoon players' intonation was in the 18th Century! Makes you wonder how bad the choirs must have been...

HannahShen12 (July 22, 2008 at 9:33 pm)

This is an oratorio. Guys!!!!!!!!